tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post114789623941268680..comments2023-05-10T02:21:56.906-07:00Comments on JimmyBob's Place: Is Ridicule The Answer?JimmyBobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04268126656118490328noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-34488000508085784442006-08-26T02:23:00.000-07:002006-08-26T02:23:00.000-07:00I have had trouble myself substantiating the story...I have had trouble myself substantiating the story. I decided to use it however, because of the volume of articles that tell it. Ingersoll certainly admired Voltaire, so I feel comfortable that his writing would not be slanted in God's favor.<br /><br />Anyway, thanks for posting and God bless you my friend!JimmyBobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04268126656118490328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-31473796180230676232006-08-24T02:19:00.000-07:002006-08-24T02:19:00.000-07:00Found this blog through Google. Thoughful stuff! I...Found this blog through Google. Thoughful stuff! I was interested in the Voltaire quote and his house being purchased and used by a Bible Society after his death. This story, with variations, is widespread on the internet. Most versions say it was the Geneva Bible Society, 20 or 50 years after his death, some say it was also later used by the British Foreign Bible Society.<br /><br />I've seen references to "A General Introduction to the Bible" by <br />Geisler and Nix, but it is not in my electronic copy. Was it taken out on revision? I've also seen a forum where someone said they contacted the French Bible Society and they said Voltaire's house at Ferney had never been used by any Bible Society and that this was a ridiculous rumor invented in the USA. The Geneva Bible Society website says they were founded in 1917, which is much to late, being 139 years after Voltaire's death.<br /><br />As already commented, the actual quote is also difficult to substantiate.<br /><br />It would appear that this story is not true, but I would be interested in any other info.David Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07931973053614555108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148398556227268322006-05-23T08:35:00.000-07:002006-05-23T08:35:00.000-07:00Steve, thanks for sharing and I'm sorry for saying...Steve, thanks for sharing and I'm sorry for saying those things. I'll be way more careful next time.<BR/><BR/>To answer your question about the seminar, I probably should have said, "I have never fellowshiped with the seminarians of the Purpose Driven Seminar to understand their culture." I've been to Youth Specialties and sat under Doug Fields. He's a very good teacher.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for helping to sharpen me.<BR/><BR/>With all sincerity.JimmyBobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04268126656118490328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148395993008958962006-05-23T07:53:00.000-07:002006-05-23T07:53:00.000-07:00JB said "Just think, soon your name will be tossed...JB said <I><B>"Just think, soon your name will be tossed around in my house, used against me as proof that she's not alone saying how hard I am to live with. Thanks a lot!"</B></I><BR/><BR/>That completely cracked me up!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148374753836640702006-05-23T01:59:00.000-07:002006-05-23T01:59:00.000-07:00JimmyBob: You are right... the "how many are ya ru...JimmyBob: You are right... the "how many are ya runnin" is a question that dates me as do the other questions I brought up in that post. They also poke fun at a specific Southern subculture which I had the opportunity to be a part of....the dress...the manner of speech.<BR/><BR/>I see the "what have you got going on" as a hipper, more emergent version of the same genre of questions though... or I guess they can be... depending on the persons I am certain.<BR/><BR/>To answer one of your questions though... I have a good relationship with Rick and many on the staff at Saddleback. My site is not about Saddleback or Rick... nor do I hate anyone there... and I am thankful for much of what I learned there (part of my series of posts on "Life's Too Short" will talk about Saddleback very fondly). I did not burn bridges with them but maintained an integrity and dignity upon leaving. I would never disparage or attack Rick or the church at Saddleback or any of the churches personally with which I have served... collectively I have experiences that have been negative that I think can be learned as to what God's church is to be about....but I also have many, many positive experiences (as chronicled in the "Life's Too Short" posts to date).<BR/><BR/>Let me emphasize one other thing if I may...you say that from my post you have an idea of what I think about the Purpose Driven Church Seminar from what I wrote. I am sorry but where exactly did you see that?? You see my ending comment on that post (the meat as it were in the last paragraph) was not necessarily a negative commentary on the seminar or conference itself. <BR/><BR/>Having been to several and taught at a couple back in the day, my comments were an encouragement (in a backhanded fashion) to pastors to take what they see and hear at these conferences at face value... to remember what they know to be true but might have temporarily forgotten in the glitz and glamour of "the show". <BR/><BR/>Saddleback Church and all other mega-churches struggle with the same problems, contain the same struggles, and possess the same sin (and I am not talking about just members, but staff) as the church the visiting pastors serve in. It's easy to look at your church or yourself as a failure in light of churches like Saddleback. Your goal as Pastors is "to be and do all God has called you to be and do right where you are".<BR/><BR/>Lots of pastors leave Saddleback feeling like they just don't measure up... I know I did at times. It's frustrating to be somewhere and not have your group grow, or people getting excited about serving, or the offerings going down... these things can seem very depressing. But none of those things are the realities of church ministry nor should they even be the emphasis... because there simply isn't a formula to follow to accomplish what God wants to do through you in the place you are serving.<BR/><BR/>That's what I want pastors to know. That's what I hope you know already. Because when it is all said and done... what truly matters JimmyBob is that wife that you have and those kids that you were given as a gift to you. That's your true ministry. The rest is negotiable.<BR/><BR/>Sorry for the message....once a preacher always a preacher I guess. Take care.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148371309549553252006-05-23T01:01:00.000-07:002006-05-23T01:01:00.000-07:00Steve, I can take correction. I know it was a min...Steve, I can take correction. I know it was a minor question and didn't have anything to do with the meat of your post (that's why I asked it here, rather than cause trouble there).<BR/><BR/>I'll have to work on how I ask questions so as not to come across as accusatory.<BR/><BR/>I've never been to a Purpose Driven seminar, so I'm unfamiliar with that particular culture, but after reading your blog, I got the idea of what you think about it. I can tell you that I don't ask questions like "How many you runnin?" But, I know there are guys that do. They tend to be new to the ministry or of the older generation. Guys my age don't care about that stuff (at least in my circle). They care more about what you've got going on.<BR/><BR/>I don't know you Steve. I should have called Dorse and asked him for his opinion first before I asked you this question. I was hoping for a different response.<BR/><BR/>Sorry for the offense. I see now that it was a mistake to even bring up such a question. Please forgive me.<BR/><BR/>Now I'm gonna have to keep my wife from seeing your response to me because she'll probably bring it up in our next argument. Just think, soon your name will be tossed around in my house, used against me as proof that she's not alone saying how hard I am to live with. Thanks a lot!JimmyBobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04268126656118490328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148364403507793822006-05-22T23:06:00.000-07:002006-05-22T23:06:00.000-07:00JB.... I think I am just going to walk away now fr...JB.... I think I am just going to walk away now from the accusations you seem to be tossing in my direction.<BR/><BR/>You seem to like to argue for arguments sake...you must be fun to live with!<BR/><BR/>I meant what I said and you can interpret it however you like. Your use of a straw man argument in this case is a wonderful way for you to avoid discussing the meat of my post on the Purpose Driven Pastor Season....which you can find on my site later today.<BR/><BR/>Keep majoring on the minors Pastor....oh and that reminds me... I forgot to ask....<BR/><BR/>So JimmyBob how many are ya runnin'?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148352864462538772006-05-22T19:54:00.000-07:002006-05-22T19:54:00.000-07:00Yeah, I did think of that angle (and I'm sure the ...Yeah, I did think of that angle (and I'm sure the SCP authors did too). Maybe they meant it exactly as you say, like "It's the Holiday Season." This is the time of the year when all the Purpose-Driven Pastors come to California. I guess you can't help what your audience will say.<BR/><BR/>However, I would still like to hear from Steve on that. What a mistake that would be if someone posted "Gay Season" to describe the time of year they all come to parade in Philadelphia and then mock their beliefs and organization. Wouldn't they still be held accountable if audience members posted comments about shotguns even if they were just tongue in cheek? That would be called "hate speech" wouldn't it?<BR/><BR/>Steve, please articulate the difference?JimmyBobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04268126656118490328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148348789469031982006-05-22T18:46:00.000-07:002006-05-22T18:46:00.000-07:00I've been thinking about this, and I don't think t...I've been thinking about this, and I don't think that's the only way to consider the post. I grew up near Ocean City, MD, where summertime is considered "tourist season." Locals generally look upon tourists with a fair amount of disdain (even as they rely on tourism for their living). But the use of the word season isn't a call to arms (except maybe tongue-in-cheek, as I perceive the SCP commenters to be). Besides, post titles need to be provocative (I'd Rather Go to the Apple Store than Church, for example).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148336209923412222006-05-22T15:16:00.000-07:002006-05-22T15:16:00.000-07:00Steve, just basic similarities, like using the pro...Steve, just basic similarities, like using the provocative title with the word "season." It sounds like a call to take up your hunting rifle and go bag some food for the winter. And when you use that in connection with a specific people group, it takes on a different tone. Add your personal views and commentary into the mix and it only reinforces the notion that you hate those guys and what they stand for. That's why you have those shooting comments posted by readers. I don't think YOU would joke like that, would you? I just think that title was a bit over the top.<BR/><BR/>You used to work at Saddleback, right? Did you burn all your bridges? I can't imagine any of them having respect for that post. I mean, I know you don't care, so please don't take me like I'm trying to fix anything there. I'm just making an observation.<BR/><BR/>Come and post anytime. If I feel brave enough, I might post something on yours. Your partner is definitely out of the box.JimmyBobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04268126656118490328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148290870501688232006-05-22T02:41:00.000-07:002006-05-22T02:41:00.000-07:00JB-I'd be interested to hear what you think the si...JB-<BR/><BR/>I'd be interested to hear what you think the similarities are?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148272896424769032006-05-21T21:41:00.000-07:002006-05-21T21:41:00.000-07:00DC, I would have refered to the Wikipedia site, bu...DC, I would have refered to the Wikipedia site, but there is no citation for that quote. So, it cannot be verified that it was really said. I emailed the International Bible Society because they use the same quote on their site without verification. I asked them what history book or Voltaire work they pulled that from. Anyway, good to hear from you again. Thanks for helping me out. You're the best!<BR/><BR/>Steve, thanks for joining the discussion here. I have gone to your site several times but have not yet posted there.<BR/><BR/>I do have a question for you and I was reluctant to ask you on your site because I didn't want to cause a problem. This is something that has been bothering me since I read your latest blog.<BR/><BR/>Would you be offended if I posted a picture of the Philadelphia Gay Pride Parade and titled it "It's Gay Season?" Do you think that would be hate speech and should it be flagged? I mean, is that really appropriate on a public blog?<BR/><BR/>I don't mean to sound preachy, it's a serious question. Tell me what the difference is.JimmyBobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04268126656118490328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148262677403495612006-05-21T18:51:00.000-07:002006-05-21T18:51:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148257788521838122006-05-21T17:29:00.000-07:002006-05-21T17:29:00.000-07:00Jeff, checked the book today and found two referen...Jeff, checked the book today and found two references for that story and both were from previous apologetics books. One from Geisler/Nix and the other one I can't remember off the top of my head. So, it looks like I'll have to do some deeper digging and actually go to the library. I'm thinking of calling an old college professor. That may save me time. What I'm looking for is a direct quote from Voltair's work, or at least a historians account apart from Christian influence. I believe the article I placed a link to did mention the Geneva Bible Society using his printing press. Also, here is an essay that doesn't seem to be Christian influenced <A HREF="http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/bios/b2voltaire.htm" REL="nofollow">Voltaire</A>. Back to the hunt!JimmyBobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04268126656118490328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148185865231676172006-05-20T21:31:00.000-07:002006-05-20T21:31:00.000-07:00eah, I remember every week during the Bush/Gore el...eah, I remember every week during the Bush/Gore elections when my Pastor quoted Al Gore as saying his favorite scripture was John 16:3 instead of John 3:16.<BR/><BR/>After reading john 16:3, its a great republican, christian sermon illustration. But it was totally untrue.<BR/><BR/>I get tired of those fables. I'm looking forward to your documentation. If there is none, there's a lot of websites out there who have this story wrong...<BR/><BR/>Still, interesting point to your post. you opened a good discussion here.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148184232417849132006-05-20T21:03:00.000-07:002006-05-20T21:03:00.000-07:00Jeff, let me do some research myself and I'll get ...Jeff, let me do some research myself and I'll get back to you on that one. I originally read it in <I>Evidence For Christianity</I>. It was used as an illustration of how the Bible has survived in spite of predicted failure. I believe there was a reference for that quote and I looked it up. I'm thinking that's how I came to the article by Robert Ingersoll. The book's in my office at church, sorry. You'll have to give me until tomorrow on that one unless I can figure it out on the internet tonight.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I'll be the first to repent if I have gullibly fallen into one of those "Christian" fables. Why does that happen anyway? Are there really that many gullible Christians out there? What kind of person feels the need to conjure up stories about people just to make a spiritual point?JimmyBobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04268126656118490328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148179393764683162006-05-20T19:43:00.000-07:002006-05-20T19:43:00.000-07:00Jimmy,Sorry I'm so late in this discussion. But I ...Jimmy,<BR/><BR/>Sorry I'm so late in this discussion. But I wanted to investigate before I posted this.<BR/><BR/>The story you tell concerning Voltaire naking that statement about the bible... do you have any documentation to support it? I've been looking and looking, and all I can find are typical christian websites that all have that quote. But, no one has any ACTUAL documentation/footnotes...etc.<BR/><BR/>It's a good sermon illustration, but like many of the sermon illustrations I've heard, I'm wondering if it's actually true.<BR/><BR/>just curious.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148172771409462252006-05-20T17:52:00.000-07:002006-05-20T17:52:00.000-07:00DC: Rage?? Where in my comments do you see "violen...DC: Rage?? Where in my comments do you see "violent and uncontrolled anger". That's too funny.<BR/><BR/>You don't know me DC... but I am sure you are intent on trying to fix me as evidenced by your comments. I mean, that's what church people do... assume people are broken and try to fix them.<BR/><BR/>I made my point but it is possible that you can't understand it. So listen to your pastor and come visit my site. You are welcome anytime.<BR/><BR/>JimmyBob: You are right... no need to rehash. It's all there in black and white but I think it is far from rage. Thanks for allowing me to comment on your site. I really enjoyed what you wrote here.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148150140073529512006-05-20T11:35:00.000-07:002006-05-20T11:35:00.000-07:00luke britt - Sorry for taking so long to get back ...luke britt - Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. It was a topical sermon/message, so I did not have one central text. But, I did focus on the theme of endurance and used the following main verses in that regard: Psalm 125:1, Matthew 10:22, Romans 5:3, and 1 Timothy 2:10.<BR/><BR/>Peter...ahh...DC (I joke because I love you man. Thanks for defending me as a pastor.), I don't think you'll get an answer to your questions. I'm not sure Steve wants to rehash the reasons for his rage (I could be wrong?!?). I don't want to speak for him. But you should check out his blog site <A HREF="http://www.stupidchurchpeople.com/" REL="nofollow">StupidChurchPeople</A> and see what he's all about.JimmyBobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04268126656118490328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148088161589963542006-05-19T18:22:00.000-07:002006-05-19T18:22:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148073569666309382006-05-19T14:19:00.000-07:002006-05-19T14:19:00.000-07:00Oh and lest my point be missed... The Church=the E...Oh and lest my point be missed... <BR/><BR/>The Church=the Emperor<BR/><BR/>Pastors/Church Leaders=the Emperor<BR/><BR/>Let's mock the Emperor for the fact that he is naked and doesn't know it. Let's laugh at him because he is naked and thinks we do not know it... or worse won't say anything because, after all, he is the Emperor.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148073256331942132006-05-19T14:14:00.000-07:002006-05-19T14:14:00.000-07:00After reading this I think I have fallen in love w...After reading this I think I have fallen in love with Voltaire... sounds like my kind of guy.<BR/><BR/><I>He mocked....kings that were unjust; kings who cared nothing for the sufferings of their subjects....popes and cardinals and bishops and priests, and all the hypocrites on the earth....historians who filled their books with lies, and philosophers who defended superstition....he haters of liberty, the persecutors of their fellow-men....the arrogance, the cruelty, the impudence, and the unspeakable baseness of his time.</I><BR/><BR/>If anything this post is a tribute to mockery and a reminder for the need for those who can see that the emperor is not wearing any clothes to stand as tall as they can, and scream as loud as they are able... "The Emperor's arse is showing and it's as ugly as can be!"Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148045880214364332006-05-19T06:38:00.000-07:002006-05-19T06:38:00.000-07:00What text did you use for that message?What text did you use for that message?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148037813943210222006-05-19T04:23:00.000-07:002006-05-19T04:23:00.000-07:00Not just ridicule, but satire, parody, direct crit...Not just ridicule, but satire, parody, direct criticism—every contrary notion is lost on the delusional mind.<BR/><BR/>"Let him who has ears to hear..." takes on a fresh dynamic in this context. Some have lost their hearing, so to speak.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169420.post-1148020796479403352006-05-18T23:39:00.000-07:002006-05-18T23:39:00.000-07:00DC, I see Jesus in you every time you smile, dude....DC, I see Jesus in you every time you smile, dude. It's been awhile since we moved so far away from each other. I miss that smile. I bet your kids inherited your enthusiasm. Good comments. Especially when you said, <I>"I think it is impossible for us to show Jesus to anyone if we do not first listen and find out where they are coming from. If we won't be quiet how can we possibly hear the still small voice nudging us gently towards an opportunity to show the glory of Jesus our God?"</I><BR/><BR/>Man, do I need to work on listening better! I have been reminded of that again recently.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Bruce, thanks for sharing you're personal experiences. It makes me sad to hear what happened but happy to know you've found something better. People do act ridiculous.<BR/><BR/>Hey gang, did you hear that? I actually confessed with my mouth (ahh, keyboard) that church people do act ridiculous. Steve would be proud and Jeff should start shouting Hallelujah! (DC, I tend to argue alot, especially when the topic is "negative" in my mind about church people/stuff. You already knew that I could argue. Ha, ha.) And you all owe it to Bruce, who befriended me, told me his personal testimony and FIRED ME UP!<BR/><BR/>Dorse, you are an amazing thinker and good explainer. I love your wit. I think I understand better that it is possible for a Christian to differentiate between someone's beliefs and their actions. Voltaire seemingly failed to make that distinction. He saw the absurdity in not only the actions of Christians, but their belief's too. To him they were solidly tied together. If the Christian was an idiot, hypocrite, or mean by their action, then it must be that Christianity was idiotic, hypocritical and mean. I've heard those same arguments from college students. I guess you can say that most people think this way about everything. Islam must be a horrific religion, because it's followers have done horrific things, for example. And so, people throw out the baby with the bathwater.<BR/><BR/>You on the other hand, say that a <I>particular brand</I> of Christianity is idiotic and believe there must be a more excellent way.<BR/><BR/>Finally, the point of the blog was to question the use of ridicule among the brethren and I see that so far, none prefer it, although some deserve it, and that ridicule is best served as stories to share among commoners for a good laugh or to aleviate cranial stress. But, direct ridicule would be of no use due to dilusion. Does that sound right?JimmyBobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04268126656118490328noreply@blogger.com